New Girl ;-)

kikikupcake

New Member
Hi Everyone,

I've been reading the forum posts for awhile now and I am really impressed with what Noogling can do!! Unfortunately I don't have my exact stats right now as I am out of town (I DO have my pump with me though lol), but I can give an idea of where I am at right now.

I am 41 years old and have had 2 children. At my fullest, I was a 32 or 34 C but as early as 25, my breasts were sagging and had significant loss of volume. Over the years, this has just gotten worse. A lot worse! Even though I have gained weight (about 20lbs over the years), my boobs have completely deflated. I didn't think it could get any worse, but this past year has been awful!! Now they are truly just completely empty skin sacks that hang down flat against my chest and nipples pointing down, no roundess or anything inside. They are concave on the tops and my nipples do not get erect. If I lay on my back, my breasts are masses of wrinkly floppy skin and my nipples collapse inside the skin. I can't even really wear a regular bra. My breast just settles to the bottom of even an A or B cup but it's really just skin, not a breast. ??? I need to wear a bra that is totally padded and my empty breast skin just gets pushed flat against my chest. Coincidentally, I believe I am entering menopause early but I feel that my hormones haven't been balanced properly for a very long time. This has been a source of shame/depression for me for a very long time and I had always told myself I would give myself a boob job as a 40th birthday gift ;) but I am really concerned about the risks and long term complications. I've experimented with various herbs like fenugreek, wild yam and saw palmetto but I feel like those made me gain weight and didn't do much for my boobs. In any case, I am on a quest to bring my womanly figure back and fill up my deflated "girls".

I've been noogling for about 2 weeks now, starting out slowly and trying not to put too much pressure on myself (ha! I couldn't resist lol). Even though I use oil, it's been a challenge to get the cups to attach since I have basically no breast volume. At first I just did one cup at a time and it would only stay on for 2 minutes maybe before losing suction. Now I am able to get them to stay on a little better and have worked up to doing about 30-60 minutes per side. I overpumped once and got those red dots, so now I err on the side of using a small amount of pressure rather than more. I mostly do pump and hold but have been experimenting with 7:2 also. As I am pumping one breast, I massage the other. I work from home so I am able to do this during the day while my boyfriend is at work. So far, I have not gotten much swelling at all, if any. I am hoping this will improve in time? Has anyone else had such a case of severe "empty boob" as I have? It's really embarrassing and has affected my life every day and my relationships :( I'm really hoping I have found the answer with noogling :D

Thanks to everyone for any advice and encouragement :-*
 

dminer84

Fulfilling a dream...
Welcome Kiki,

I can totally understand your frustration with the ever flattening breasts. Out of curisousity, have you been showing signs of menopause? It is quite common for a female to reduce breast size as estrogen and progesterone levels fall but it sounds like you experienced this in extreme. I just bring it up as you could be showing signs of hormonal imbalance there.

But it is my opinion you'll bounce back once you find those methods that work best for you. I've seen plenty of example of past "deflated" mothers gain 2-3 cups in just the first year of moderate pumping. Of course, they eventually hit the wall and it becomes work. :)

Regarding the red dots, there is nothing to fear with them. It is swelling in the hair follicles due to stressful pressures on the skin. All you need to do is back off a bit and massage alot and they will go away naturally and condition the skin to accept more pressure over time.

I hope you're share pics over the coming months as this is a very common reason for women to pump and seeing success is always inspiring.

DJ
 

kikikupcake

New Member
Hi DJ,

Thank you for your post :) I have been reading the forum for a few months and I ALWAYS enjoy reading your posts. You are a wealth of information and encouragement 8) It's a pleasure to talk with you! I will post picture soon too.

You are correct about the hormone imbalance. I think I always had some type of hormone imbalance but at 35, I felt the volume turn up and things head south with a vengeance. Then at 38, from my symptoms, I think I was in serious perimenopause (hot flashes, night sweats, weight gain and overall flabbiness and lack of tone despite exercise and clean diet, more cellulite, irregular painful heavy periods, intense fatigue, mental fog, memory issues, more breast deflation, depression). I had been trying to control symptoms with nutrition, exercise, supplements, herbs but without success. At 38, I went to a naturopath and finally tried natural progesterone cream as well. I was very hopefull! It slightly helped some of my symptoms, but I suspect it made others worse. Much to my surprise, my breasts deflated even more to the point of being completely empty and they got wrinkly, puckered and full of stretch marks (from shrinking?). Now was this due to what I was taking--or did my hormones decide to take an even sharper decline at that point? Who can say. Even then, I thought I needed more hormones instead of just progesterone (based on my testing), but he insisted no. I tried for a year and a half, but just felt worse and didn't know where to turn. The medical doctors I saw just told me this was all normal part of aging, and wanted to put me on sleeping pills and anti-depressants. No one (doctors, alternative therapists) acknowledged or addressed my breast issues. I knew this was not normal though. It is not normal to lose your breasts at 25 and have flat completely deflated breasts at 41. I get that aging breasts change, but none of my friends (even 15 years older than I am) have this issue.

Then I moved and found a new gynecologist that also specializes in Anti-Aging, and uses bio-identical hormone replacement therapy. He tested my hormones and my estrogen is on the low range for a post-menopausal woman!!!! Also, my progesterone is basically non-existent. This was not surprising based on my symptoms and early, abrupt menopause runs on my mom's side of the family (also, even last year my FSH level was high, indicating impending menopause!). Coincidentally, before my first appointment at this new gynie, I had my last period. I haven't had one since and that was about 3 months ago so I am thinking menopause might be here. The past year, I've been suffering with more significant weight gain/flabbiness, I'm getting TONS of wrinkles and my sex drive went away completely (I look at myself saying "who are you??" :eek: because my drive used to be super HIGH), I don't have sexual response/orgasm or feeling anymore, and I am all dried up. Even just one of these changes would be frustrating, all of them together are a living nightmare. I am waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too young for this!! My quality of life is awful and I am going to fight this every step of the way :mad: my goal is to age gracefully and enjoy my life to the fullest ;) I have now started BHRT with a combo of hormones this time, so I am really hopeful I get some relief.

My poor boyfriend!! We've been together about 5 years and I moved in with him about 6 months ago. He has never said anything bad about my breasts but I know he would be happier if they were bigger, firmer and rounder!!! And so would I!!! He likes big boobs and he needs something to play with and look at. Right now I got nothin' but empty skin, and that's not cute LOL. At this point, it's so uncomfortable for my boobs to sag, flop and roll about, I sleep with a tank top on to try to keep them against me. My boyfriend doesn't even try to look or touch my boobs anymore. I don't know if it is because he feels I am uncomfortable or if it's because he really would rather not anyway because they don't look or feel good to him :'( Even if I wasn't in a relationship, I still would need to improve my breasts and body--just for myself! I feel like I am not even a woman and it is so depressing, shameful and humiliating. Even if my breasts were small but perky, firm I would feel better--this gross looking empty-sack look is demoralizing. It has been such a blow for my self esteem, not a day goes by that I am not unhappy about it. I try to forget or not care, but that doesn't work :( I used to LOVE to be naked ;) even when my breasts started to change or sag I would just push through it and feel sexy anyway. But the last 2 years with the weight gain and total deflation of my boobs, I want to cover up all the time. It's a huge problem, this plus how terrible and unsexy I feel from the hormonal stuff--eeek!! And we have a hot tub we use at least 3 times a week--when the jets are going, I should feel relaxed and wonderful. But no, all I can think of is how my breasts look, they are like long, thin, empty, wrinkled tubes floating in the water--being pushed by the current from the jets just emphasizes there is no resistance or volume of any kind :-[ Don't even get me started on the awkwardness of getting in or out of the tub lol ???

Sorry everyone, for these books I keep writing :p but it feels good to get these feelings out. And I am wondering if anyone else can relate or have advice. It's not something I can talk about to anyone else--even my friends. They don't understand and look at me like I am crazy. I am really hopeful that noogling can be my answer--I knew there had to be a way. I understand it takes time, but I have felt bad about this for almost 20 years at this point, what's a couple more months or years?
 

kikikupcake

New Member
OK Everyone, I am going to attempt to post pictures. I've taken quite a few from various angles, and then demonstrating some of the issues I want to correct :) I just took these today, so I've been noogling for a couple weeks. You'll see in my photos that my nipples are actually erect--this is due to noogling and is a definite improvement. Before, my nipples were always soft and big which made my breasts look even that more pathetic lol. They wouldn't ever get hard and any touch was irritating and annoying, not stimulating. Not so any more!

Looks like I might have to post individually due to size. Bear with me on this, folks ;D

Front View, sitting or standing: you can see the extreme sagging and emptiness--especially in the top part of my breast.
 

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kikikupcake

New Member
Next photos show lying down. Depending on the angle, you can see that the skin is totally flat. My nipples used to sink into the skin but noogling seems to have kept them from doing this anymore. You can also see parts of the upper breast area that is actually concave, showing the complete emptiness inside. That part is also super wrinkly puckered and the whole breast just slides off into my armpit :-\
 

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kikikupcake

New Member
It looks like angle makes a big difference, as this is also the same day :-\ You can see my right breast nipple is turning up a bit and the left is still pointing downward as they both were, slight improvement with noogling? My left breast is the longer one and right one a bit smaller so maybe that's it.

This posting picture business is rather humbling and difficult lol. I don't want to acknowledge how bad I look. I could just keep these for myself, but I am hoping to help others, especially a woman with same shape I have who is very discouraged and unhappy. Most of the pics I see posted of girls who are small but looking to get bigger....you all are so great looking already :) Go for your goal if that is what you want, but don't put yourself down!!!! Your shape is adorable and sexy even as it is....not mine lol :-[

I suppose what I am saying is, if I can get results I think anyone can :p time and patience will tell :D

I'll continue posting pics with updates, and I will get my number stats going as soon as I can too
 

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dminer84

Fulfilling a dream...
Ouch.. severe hormonal issues there. These situations are so frustrating as many of these issues can be caused by several things (or interplay of several). However, it sounds like most of your sexual hormones have dropped far below normal. Now, I would be curious about the control and feedback channels for regulating those hormones as I suspect a problem lies there. In the meantime, you could try food and supps to bring your levels up (E, P and T - yes, women need it too for metabolism, muscle and hair)

Regarding your self-image, I can only imagine how hard things have been trying to cope. But I want to remind you, a woman isn't just a pile of boobs, gaping vagina, cook, and sock cleaner. :) You are still a woman even if you don't match up well with usual standards of "beauty" at the moment. It will actually be easier on yourself if you can accept your current state and move to resolve to gain your health back. By no fault of your making, you have found your life changed. But remember the good things you still have in your life... friends, a partner, a home and even a job (or business). Remember how people brighten when you smile and laugh... remember how it feels to help someone who appreciates it.

Self improvement is both a desire to change outside and inside. By my experience, it is the inside that needs attention before the outside changes will follow. Pumping is a demanding project both in terms of time and emotion. So don't let these changes keep you down; as there comes a time when you get up, brush yourself off, smile and get serious about being happy.

On a intimate subject, you'll probably want to start sharing more of your thoughts about this with your boyfriend. Without a sex drive, it can be much harder to maintain relationships without a strong communcation channel and means of loving each other outside of the bedroom. As a starting point, perhaps you (or both) can read a book called The Five Love Languages. There is no quick fix for this but it is so much more fulfilling to have someone to share your victories and setbacks in long term goals.

DJ
 

kikikupcake

New Member
Thanks DJ, I'm really trying (and have been trying for a long time!) to find solutions, but it's super tough on me emotionally. You're right that we don't have to be perfect or ideal to be beautiful and valuable--I just feel SO FAR on the other side of that :( I try not to be concerned, I try to think of myself differently or look at all the wonderful qualities I have....but somehow when it comes to truly feeling like a woman, it's like there's so much missing. Plus, with all this past year has thrown at me with my body, hormonal changes, etc it's really hard for me to feel open for intimacy--physically or emotionally. I just feel like running away and isolating completely. I know that's not good :-\ but it really is how I feel! It's frustrating that this affects me so deeply. Wow, some of this stuff I have never said out loud before and it's making me tear up lol!! My boyfriend is not really a communicator (strong, silent type), though I know he loves me. Haven't figured out how/when/if to approach this with him, plus I feel too fragile still. However, I am going to push through this and move forward!! And I'll keep working on the emotional/self image stuff. Let's see how I feel in a few months ;)

Happy Noogling :-*
 

zkk

New Member
Talking about these things is really therapeutic so go for it, we'll listen :) I think that for everyone there's a limit what they can accept in their appearance and what they can not and this shouldn't be judged by anyone as shallow. I can see you have really tried, much more than I ever had the will to try. I just gave up, kept hating my breasts and envying others. It's not the right thing to do but that's why I can understand your feelings so well. Sometimes the despair is just overwhelming.

It's because breasts have a lot of meaning besides appearance - like you, I feel that they are a significant part of my femininity and when I feel that they've always been somewhat underdeveloped it's like I never reached that state of womanhood other women did. I've felt very incomplete. I am not saying you shouldn't love and appreciate yourself the way you are - you should, well-being really comes from the inside. I just mean that when you CAN change something that bothers you, there's no reason you shouldn't do it if you feel you just can't accept it. And it's completely OK. I'm saying this because I've encountered a lot of misunderstanding and even disdain when talking about my own breasts issues. It was as if I didn't have the right to feel this way.

I really hope your situation with those hormonal issues improves and you'll find a balance both physically and emotionally :)
 

kikikupcake

New Member
Thanks Zercher, you've put it very well--that's how I feel too And....I am pretty sure I will be taking you up on your invitation to vent and share and grow through interaction on the forum with y'all ;D :) it's tough! I just know I want to feel as good as I can physically and emotionally, so I am trying to find solutions. It kind of sucks that it's so hard to find the right ones though (I'm mostly referring to the hormonal stuff--even actively researching and experimenting has been a time-consuming challenge! Then when one thing you've devoted time to doesn't help, you need to back up and try something else....rinse and repeat lol). Top that with feeling so "odd looking" lol, yikes!!! Somehow it's a balance--because like DJ said, we are beautiful because of who we are inside and how we help people and the things we do and "are", I guess you could say our heart and soul. But then again there is that physical feminine aspect that is ingrained. For me, I see it as a range....and I am so far outside of that physical range that I feel really inferior. BUT!!! That's why I am here ;D
 

zkk

New Member
Clearly you got the spirit of a fighter :) I believe in effort and persistence too. It has to reward you at some point. Keep it up!
 

dminer84

Fulfilling a dream...
Well, this could become an interesting thread... :)

To emphasize, it isn't quick and straight forward to change oneself. I believe there is alot of courage, determination and deliberation needed for any change and this is where energy is consumed in the efforts. Also, each "failure" can be a wonderful learning opportunity if the above qualities is appled to understand the failure.

Now the meaning breasts and womanhood is a fun topic. Something I've been facing myself is this prescribed set of expections I was taught and pressured to follow. As a male, I'm expected to think, behave and appear within a fairly rigid ideal. Like you, I don't felt I fit into that mould and I've been unhappy in various ways trying to "be" that ideal. Well it is my opinion women get more room to be different but then imprisoned into certain physical appearance. And honestly, I think men are partly at the root of it. Still, it is the same thing I'm facing.

So let me ask this: are these aspects truly your desire? It is easy to adopt ideals from others (especially as a child) without really examining it. So in short I'm saying to be sure whatever issue of interest/obsession is really what you desire and not an expectation from others.

I could spend alot of time expressing my understanding of "the meaning of breasts". In fact, I did in a crossdressing post on here. But the one thing I can characterize my views -- I get a warm, nurturing and loving feeling for others when I imagine myself with breasts. It isn't about attracting someone to me (but a feeling of sexual attractiveness is there). I really would like these feelings to be a part of me all the time; thus, I have found that courage and energy to break from the stereotype and find myself instead.

I share this because changing my view of the problem has been quite relieving for me. I feel happier and more free even with my numerous lacking of different aspects. I just try to see it as "well, I'm here but I would like to be there" and there seems to be less stress doing so.

Perhaps I'm unique in this problem and approach but I doubt it and I know others can cultivate one for themselves.

DJ
 

kikikupcake

New Member
Oh DJ, I LOVE this!!!! And even if our circumstances aren't exactly the same, the experiences and challenges are similar enough for us all to relate to each other, don't you think? :D Like if you feel most comfortable and wonderful having breasts, I think that is important and you can't deny that (and obviously you haven't, yay! ;D ) I have had a nagging feeling for awhile that I need to "dig deeper" into myself right now too. I've just been so busy and get caught up in the immediate. Not that I don't want to continue this noogle journey, because I certainly do! I want to have beautiful breasts to love and enjoy--I feel that's how I will be most comfortable and happy with myself, period. Regardless of anyone else in this world. But your post has got me thinking....it has me wanting to connect with that inner essence of myself again, awaken that beautiful, vibrant sexual being within myself that is passionate about life and love and experience....just because! And kind of related to what you said, I am here where I am now but I want it to be the BEST NOW possible anyway. Maybe I've been putting myself in a box for too long. Life is short...does that sound crazy lol??? I know this is kind of a tangent but it's what I found my reaction to be :-\
 

dminer84

Fulfilling a dream...
Indeed, I think we're connecting and I really enjoy this aspect of the forum. All too often I see people that appear to be hung up on an ideal image that other sources planted rather than something generated from within themselves. I'm not saying this about you but it is a common source of self punishment and dislike. Our common stereotypes are exactly this problem for most but so pervasive to be impossible to see (aka Elusively Obvious). I so dislike seeing someone in this situation that I must help if I can.

Introspection that's honest, accepting and focused to love has been my best friend thus far and I think it is a wonderful approach for many body-self-image distresses we face in our lives. I think my message is "to connect" and I'm happy you're willing to see value in it. And surprisingly, it doesn't mean you run up the nearest mountain for a 2 year isolation. I make about 30-60 minutes a day to find a quiet place (physically, mentally and emotionally) and reflect or meditate (different activities) on these topics -- usually the ones I found myself distressed about during the day. Over time, I do connect my inner dots and find little epiphanies and move to happier states with myself. I think it helps as I'm understanding the reasons and/or values rather than reacting and thus I'm more comfortable even when challenged by others. On the flip side, I like to believe I accept others better since I've probably traveled a bit of their paths to get "here" myself.

In retrospect, I can see I started my journey about 4 years ago when I got tired of beating myself and being unhappy and started asking, why am I unhappy and how can I be happy. It has led me to understand my relationshp to roles and society much better. I'm still combating issues (especially the male stereotype and social norms) but I'm much happier now. I'm willing to hug myself now (and do from time to time). :)

DJ
 

kikikupcake

New Member
You know, I am for sure someone that appreciates introspection and going deep :D In fact, this has been a goal of mine even apart from boobie-development lol but just as a personal journey at this point in my life. To give a little bit of insight, I have been a single mom forever, doing it all on my own. The stress and loneliness I've experienced at times, I cannot even explain. I always busted my butt to work, take care of my son and also go to school. Even though I knew it was important, taking care of "me" was many times just impossible. Then when my son was in high school, our relationship was so contentious I was on a high stress alert every second. Couple that with high pressure at work and nearing graduation for myself in my college program--I was in survival mode for sure all the time. I remember feeling so desperate for a "break" just a break to take a deep breath! I honestly can't believe I made it through sometimes LOL but I did!!

I hung in there, and now I am at a point where I have that break, I suppose. My son is grown and out of the house and I've made a lot of drastic changes in my life to allow me this time, this space, to find balance and rediscover myself, connect with myself once more. Take care of myself. Love myself :-* And grow into that person I feel inside, the one I want to be. That is my focus right now--though I find myself sometimes deviating from that path and getting caught up in the immediate. No no!! Get back on track, KiKi :eek:

All that being said, I really appreciate the "personal growth" side of things as you said. So just know I am always here to listen to that as well :-*
 

kikikupcake

New Member
Hello everyone,

It's been about a month of consistent noogling (about an hour or so a day during the weekdays) and massage. Can't say that I have seen any changes as yet. In fact, at first I saw some changes in my nipples, before they weren't able to get hard and in the first couple weeks they were! It was great! But then a couple weeks ago, they went back to how they were. I have a sneaking suspicion this has to do with the hormone therapy I started from my doctor....at first my body rejoiced, then a couple weeks later....it went back to how it was. Also to note, I lost 10lbs almost overnight and then I started gradually swelling again and getting crampy, woudln't you know I got my period (hadn't had one in 3 months, before I went on the hormones) and have felt like crap since ughhh. And the weight is back on in my stomach and legs but of course not my chest, that is smaller LOL. Incidentally, does anyone know why???? We're working on finding the right balance for me but what a process :mad: Anyway, not sure if this is having an effect on my breast growth or not....but still noogling and still experimenting with the hormones. In case anyone can offer any insight: I am taking bio-identical hormone cream currently at a strength of 1mg E2 2x day, 60 mg progesterone 2x day, .25 mg testosterone 2x day. I just increased the dose to see if I got better results....for the past 6 weeks I was at half that dose. I am going to talk to my doctor about giving me separate creams, right now it's all in one cream that I apply. Reason being, I am concerned about taking too much testosterone....my levels are normal but since my female hormones are SO low I think it's causing problems and don't want to increase it even more as I increase the estrogen and progesterone. In fact, I now have begun to break out on my chest/back/face which I haven't done since I was about 13 :(

I might try to post some pics in another 2 weeks to see if there have been any noticeable changes.
 

kikikupcake

New Member
Hi Abigail =)
Yes, I did nurse my son but only briefly. I was unable to produce enough milk so I had to supplement with formula and then I ended up stopping because I just wasn't producing and had to go back to work etc.

I had my son when I was 19 and probably when I was about 25-26 is when I noticed a very significant loss of volume, especially at the top and terrible sagging. I remember noticing it almost overnight and I was like what the heck lol? But back then there were even fewer answers than now, and I just dealt with it and figured I would save up for surgery when I was older and hopefully in better $$ position :p I really didn't think it could get any worse, but the time span between about 35-38 destroyed them even more so now they are seriously just flat empty skin and my nipples don't work (respond/get erect). Still very difficult to get answers from anyone, even naturopaths, herbalists and doctors that specialize in anti-aging and bioidentical hormones. Makes me feel like a hideous freak :( but I am noogling to try to put some volume and lift back into the girls.
 
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