breasts, nipples and social norms

[hephaistos]

Hi!

I'm a guy (not trying to enhance his breasts, the missus is the one noogling) and there are some things i really do not comprehend regarding women's attitudes towards their breasts.

First of all, what's up with hiding the nipples? showing as much cleavage as possible, but making sure to keep the nipples hidden. On "naked" pictures the same goes, the models always hide the nipples but show everything else. Why?

Why are 1/4 cup bras considered slutty? I don't know about the cheap stuff, but the good ones (I know agent provocateur) clearly offer support, and unlike conventional bras also preserve the natural shape of the breasts under the clothes. Why not wear something that looks more natural? Because the nipples might get hard when it's cold? the same applies to guys, you don't see us wearing an extra layer just for that.

Why is it that women who need less support than I do wear (padded) a-cup bras? Those things make small breasts completely disappear, and because of that i think make women feel bad about their body (otherwise noogleberry wouldn't exist and all those surgeons would be out of a job too). So why not go bra-less, chill out and tell those who complain to go f*** themselves?

So... please don't feel offended I am genuinely perplexed about this.

 

[xxbabygirlxx]

One reason women don't show their nipples is because its illgeal in the Canada/US/Australia etc.. to show your nipples in public. It is suppose to protect women from getting raped [dumb i know]. Personally, the reason why i don't let it hang out freely is because i don't want saggy tits [ yes, bras help prevent that from happening], i don't want to get arrested, and lastly because i want to be taken seriously. Honestly, would you take a woman topless seriously in business? I wouldn't.

 

[hephaistos]

I probably wouldn't but then again there'd probably be drool all over the contracts and definitely be out of a job after selling at a huge loss.

However I didn't mean to talk about women going completely topless. Simply going without a bra or with a 1/4 cup but still wearing a shirt lol. those things also protect against the cold lol.

One reason women don't show their nipples is because its illgeal in the Canada/US/Australia

Is it illegal in ads and TV too? violence is OK but nipples are not?

 

[Lily13]

I dunno why women cover the nipples. Probably some type of decency law or restrictions are in place. Remember what happened during the Superbowl half-time show a few years back? I think CBS got fined for Janet jackson's "wardrobe malfunction".

I've never worn a 1/4 cup bra and have no idea about them. For noogling I think they'd be great. Not sure about going out like that ...

Isn't it obvious why an A cup woman would wear a padded bra? These women probably are an AA and either can't find those bra sizes or are stuffing them to be an A. I know I wore an A for years and it didn't fit me at all. The best thing a person with small breasts can do is get sized properly and wear the right bra size.

I would never go bra-less. I actually HATE the feeling and it looks awful on me under a shirt. It's so obvious because I don't have the full tops and they look flat, then pointy. I will never understand women who have this thing against bras like we are being "brought down" by wearing them. If you really feel that way, then go bra-less and be done with it. Don't tell us women who don't mind them to "get back to roots" or something messed up like that. Sorry but I don't have this misplaced anger towards men some women feel. :-X

 

[xxbabygirlxx]

haha yes, it is illegal in ads/tv. I know its a werid to be allowed violence on tv and yet we cover nipples. I'm guessing it has something to do with religion, i don't know. Come on, your saying you would take a woman breasts flopping around seriously? Its not very professional. Personally, i like bras makes me feel secured. I'm a bigger size so going braless would be impossible.

 

[hephaistos]

your saying you would take a woman breasts flopping around seriously

lol no but now that I think of it I wouldn't think less of them, i would just wonder what the hell is going on. Either way in an environment where everyone else is clothed, it would definitely be distracting. And when negotiating on price it's always good to consider the massive black guy(intimidating) or the beautiful woman (distracting) << It works

I'm not trying to argue the usefulness of bras (obviously the bigger the breasts, the greater gravity can be felt), however I've had a couple of girlfriends with really small breasts and i really don't think small (a cup) bras enhance anything. In terms of support it's not needed (or maybe the girls i'm thinking about were very small A), and most importantly, from a visual aspect, imo it actually looks flatter (it can hardly make the breasts look round like larger sizes, and the natural pointy bit doesn't point anymore, making it look like there's nothing in there). When they wear a slightly transparent shirt and you can see the bra underneath looking flat and empty it seems... really desperate. especially considering that not so long ago, bras didn't exist.

1/4 cup isn't the same as open or cupless bras (1/4 cup actually supports) and what i like about them is that they preserve the natural pear-like shape of (natural) breasts. That's what it looks like:

 

[Lily13]

It just sounds like these girls were really AA/AAA and were trying to wear an A cup. That's pretty common because you can't find AA's in stores and it's embarrassing to go into a training bra.

I didn't realize there was a difference between the cupless/ 1/4 cup bras. You know more than I do. It would not look that good on those of us with very small breasts because you actually need tissue to get it to look like that. For instance, push up bras only work if you have something to push up. They look better on people with B/C cups rather than A cups. These undergarment companies don't quite understand what small breasted women want. I'm convinced they are all run by big breasted women.

In order to wear that 1/4 cup bra, you'd need very nice round, perky, decently sized boobs.

 

[hephaistos]

actually on small breasts (the kind that tends to point south towards the center of the earth as well), quarter cup bras do wonders. however they have to be good quality so that the cup doesn't fold under the breast. On large breasts however the success isn't as great as the breast tends to "jump" over the cup, rendering the whole thing pretty much useless. Obviously however women with perfect shapes and with good natural lift will look good in anything (and they're the ones you see on the bra ads). In fact the quarter cup bra in french is called "redresse-sein" which means "straighten-up" (more or less). They work quite well. Although obviously not as much support as a full or 1/2 cup bra, and the sex-shop quality stuff isn't going to give any support.

My wife is so annoyed at her breasts (I don't see why), she's kind of always moody about them and at some point wanted implants (so I ingeniously placed "implant fail" pictures all around the house ) and did some serious research into sizes (turns out she was wrong) and essentially started buying luxury stuff (significantly more comfortable, you get what you pay for). Ah and got her a noogleberry. (although thats not working out well i need to get those new cups)


As to using the noogleberry cups with a quarter cup bra, dont bother it'll just ruin it. It best to get a normal (oversized) cheap bra and cut off the cups.

 

[Lily13]

Oops when I said to use the cupless/quarter bra with noogle, I mean after you are done to retain swelling. I'd think this would be really really good to perk them up as well. Yeah I can imagine pumping with it on would ruin it!

You sound like a good husband and you are supportive of your wife's desire to change her breasts. Some on here can't tell their husbands/bf or their spouses don't like them doing it. Thankfully my husband supports me too and he's the one that actually found noogleberry, then got it for my birthday. I was always so annoyed with my breasts too and this is the best thing that's ever happened to me as far as boobs go. I wasn't interested in herbs and breast implants crossed my mind for about 5 mins once and I knew that wasn't an option. It's just too scary to me.

Go and order those domes for your wife. The CL domes are awesome! Tell her to make a username and stop in some time or even post on your account.

 

[hephaistos]

I don't know if wearing a 1/4 cup bra while swollen would help "shape" the breasts, we never tried that before

I gather you're using those new cups... How about the new rings? There were talks about silicone rings or something before , do you use those?

I just looked at your pics/progress... That's great progress. However i noticed on your pre-nb picture that your bra seems to dig in under your breasts (underwire). This suggests it's the wrong size somehow... (or maybe that it's a plain rubbish bra lol). Get some help when holding the measuring tape, and buy accordingly from an expensive brand, especially now that you've grown. You won't regret it. 100% guaranteed. The best 100 pounds I ever spent was at agent provocateur. The prices suck but the quality is really great. Also when I meant "a" earlier it was less than what you started with... And looking at your first stats post and the pics, you were definitely not smaller than a AA, but probably a A or small B. Difficult to see from the pics, but you were definitely not desperately small. (awe now that I think of it, there's apparently a 1 cup size difference between british/european system and american. American B is european C (http://www.85b.org/bra_conv.php)

Also, if that's something you want to look into, i read somewhere on this forum that you could tie the NB cups together to make the breasts grow more towards the front instead of the side (NB cups tend to point sideways when pumping). I can't confirm whether it works however, we never managed to do that ( small skinny ribcage, no contoured cups -- Yet )

PS: a 1/4 cup bra would be perfectly fine on you

 

[Anatori]

Personal perspective here.

I don't know why nipples are covered. I once saw a video that a man posted about how nipples have "power" over men. He kept going on saying that men were ok but women it was distracting. Women had to "cover up their dots" as he put it. Honestly to me a naked breast is the same as a mostly naked breast. Unfortunately with me though, the reaction is extreme jealousy because most of the women who do expose nipples or show off cleavage, have cleavage and my mind has the thought that these women are now instantly more sought after by men and unless I find a way to have that.... I'm not gonna find someone who will want me. as a person or anything....

I don't know why people say they are slutty. 1/4 cup bras are nice. I've seen them but won't get them because of the fact that if it gets hold, BAM hard nipples and Like Lily said, since my breasts are small... they tend to come to a point. If they were bigger and rounder... maybe, On top of that it goes back to what babygirl was saying about being taken seriously. Hypothetically, i put on a 1/4 cup bra, it get a little chilly, they stiffen up, instantly any conversation i'm having will pretty much end cuz his eyes will drift south see that and even if he looks away, he wont be able to think about anything else for a while. I've had this conversation with a couple of guy friends. Guys aren't afraid to let hard nipples show because of one of two reasons, A) hard nipples can be a sign that said guy is buff under his shirt. Some guys wear tighter shirts to show off this. Or B) breasts aren't something women typically look at on men or something they view as an attractive attribute or whatever, so it doesnt come into play no matter what. Most of my guy friends wil admit that the first things they see when they look at a women are ass, waist size, and breast, THEN they move to finding out who the woman is and what not. Those physical features may not matter, but they are usually the first viewed. With women looking at men... I personally look at height differential and then smile, other women can look at butt size or arm size or something but we usually dont go "omg nipples".

In regards to the padded bras, I wear them because they make it look like i have cleavage. I want to be one of those girls who has something to flaunt like so many out there do. So padded bras help. However, there are padded bras out there that make you seem WAY bigger than you are and I agree that that is false advertising, I wear lightly padded ones to enhance a bit and lift a bit. They don't make my breasts disappear any more than they already have. Maybe the women you are talking about have smaller breasts than I do I'm not sure. But usually, from my perspective and from a couple of my friends, the padding doesnt make them disappear, it gives extra support and enhances the look of them.

I am in no way speaking for anyone else but myself and I am only saying what I know and feel and what i've seen and heard. Maybe I'm wrong and if I am i'll admit it. This is just one girls opinion and her answers to your questions.

 

[Lily13]

@hephaistos Yeah my bras were pretty much trashed, but I just bought new ones. Which one did you think was digging in? I literally just bought new bras and want to make sure it wasn't one of those!! The bras I had in my first pictures were a 34A and as you can see, they were not even close to fitting me. I was probably a 32A when I started since the 34A's were literally hanging off of me. I had the straps as tight as possible. The band was rising up and the cups would just lift up and over my boobs all the time. I was constantly tugging at my bra to stay down on my back. The pictures from June 2010 I had already been noogling for 2 months, so I think I was even smaller... My starting measurements were 32" across, so that would put me at a 0" difference between band size so in American sizes that's a 34AA or 32AAA. The lady at VS thought a 32 looked better on me. When I went to VS back in October 2010, I was measured as a 32B. Somewhere along the way I gained a whole cup size from June 2010--> October 2010. Now I'm a 32C but will be heading to VS to see what they think...

I do not use any rings with the new CL domes. I don't think the silicone rings were ever released. I was waiting on them too, but the CL's are so comfortable you don't even have to worry about it at all. I noogle one dome at a time, so I bring the dome in as far into the center as possible. The ring marks overlap in the center.

@Anatori, You don't first look at a guys nipples when you meet them? That's the first thing I see! j/k of course. I have to admit, I'm really liking those crazy padded bras. There is no more false advertising for me since my husband has seen it all. haha I noogled and then put on the Emma bra and I almost had a cleavage line. The look on my husband's face was priceless.


In other news...It is soo time to make some coffee.

 

[hephaistos]

Hi! I was referring to the pre-nb picture (on your fisrt post) where you are wearing a beige bra. It seems that the underwire under your breasts digs in (near the middle of the cup), but doesn't touch the skin near the middle of the bra. I'm no expert but this rings "cup is too small" to me. also you breasts were small but round, and the bra's cups do not seem nearly round enough for your breasts. The surface of the bra's cups is large but they look like they don't offer a lot of space inside (do you know what i mean?) As if it's meant for wide but not "thick" breasts. I see my wife's bras have much rounder underwires. (actually i just saw your latest pictures and your new bras seem to have the same problem. maybe it's just a style thing?) Although your size has changed now, it seems that the band on that bra then was too small. It is clearly stretched and the cups are being "deformed" into some kind of oval shape.

I'm posting a picture showing what imo it should look like (I'm not a pro so maybe I'm wrong), with rounder underwire.

@Anatori I see your point. However the standard male behaviour (which is physiological) is to identify possible mates, and the ones most likely to carry children are those with certain proportions. this means big bum and breasts. Nothing you can do about that. Nor can they. However I don't see guys complaining about nipples. Sure maybe a couple will mention company dress code and others will probably make an honourable mention at the coffee machine, but that's about it, and only because it is unusual. It's mostly other women who are judgemental about those things. Breast feeding in public, topless at the beach, etc. if there's a tiny piece of bikini cloth hiding the nipple it's suddenly OK for women, i don't think guys make much of a difference between that and topless (I don't). Another thing that kind of worries me is how young people seem to increasingly think "boys do this" "girls do that". A bit like that guy who was saying "women have to hide their dots" without wondering why. (Oh yes because it gives women power over men? what a great argument lol). Tiny kids wear bras (now, really i have to say it, W.T.F) and I really find this strange considering they're the ones who should be rebelling against "old" people (anyone over 22 ) and their ancient values.

 

[Strumpet]

I actually find this discussion quite interesting! So I thought I'd hop in if I may.

I'm not sure why nipples are such a big deal in some places. When I traveled to Europe, I found breasts to be much less sexually charged, and was at first shocked by bra-less women and their exposed nipples and, of course, topless beaches, but it's funny how quickly you get used to it. I think it has something to do with the Puritan, finger-wagging values (in the US) that make things like nudity or even body hair on a woman (I'm thinking of the reaction to a scene in Ang Lee's "Lust, Caution" that was set in WWII Shanghai, where armpit-shaving wasn't done) an outrage when we're totally okay with brutal violence and even torture porn (Saw, Hostel, etc).

Like anything else, I try to meet these social norms half-way. I'll forgo bras when I think I can get away with it, mostly because I find the traditional (underwired) ones uncomfortable, under a doubly lined tank or dress, or even a men's style shirt. I've recently discovered bralettes and bandeaus, which forgo the traditional metal wire and shaping and tend to conform more to the natural shape of the breast. I've been doing some reading that suggests constrictive, well-fitting bras worn for long periods of time can lead to increased sagging, due to the ligaments responsible for holding the tissue "up" atrophying when not in use. (The opposite effect, as you might expect, occurs when supportive bras aren't worn during high-impact exercise, as the ligaments tear with lots of "bouncing.") For a while now there's been contention that bra use might be linked to the high rates of breast cancer in N. America, but I don't know that it's been extracted from the terribly unhealthy refined sugar/red meat diets also common in N. America and other such factors.

I've never heard of 1/4 cup bras, so I'm not sure why they'd be considered "slutty" except for the nipple issue once again. And the bra padding is probably a combination of what Lily suggested, that it's difficult to find bra sizes that small, and that of the social ridicule that one might experience for being flat-chested. I used to get a lot of flack for it growing up, but if I recall always from other women, who told me that women ought to have "digits" and for a woman to be without these curves "it doesn't look right." I like to think that these girls are fat and unsuccessful now.

 

[Anatori]

I guess its a small way for girls to show off as much as possible without having it be against the law. "Nope i'm not naked, my nipples aren't showing. Around teh workplace I couldn't answer that I guess in regards to bras. Like I said, I don't cuz mine are too small and it looks wierd when it gets cold and i'm not sure if you can tell but i'm super self conscious about things like that. I care deeply about what people think of me even though I try to give off teh "accept me for who I am" speech... But it has become the norm to wear bras and anyone who doesnt wear one would be talked about by the guys and I know a lot of girls who would say these women who don't wear bras are just sluts looking for attention. My friend doesnt wear bras though. but she has cleavage without and everything so she doesnt need one. her nipples show and she tells me people talk and its not always good but she loves the attention so she does it all teh time.

I know its human nature to look at appearances not just for shallow reasons but because of something deeper. Men look at womens proportions, big hips are good birthing hips and larger breasts apparently mean they will be able to feed the children better. (the latter isn't completely true btw). Women find men who work out and are strong to be attractive because they can protect, and if they make money, they can provide. But I'm not attracted to those kinds of guys, so why do I feel they have to be attracted to the typical hott chick? I'm not sure why I think the way I do. I don't know if i watched the wrong movies at a young age, I don't know if it was the being socially outcast cus I didnt develop like the cheerleaders did, Or if my parents didnt have the right talks to me. Or maybe I did this to myself. But I know what you mean. I'm trying to change it because its really depressing but I have the thought so deeply engraved in my mind that large breasts are a must and that my man will always want someone else because she is better proportioned than me. My bf reads Maxim and I get jealous of those girls because they have those large beautiful breasts. Silicone or not they are perfect, and I have this thought that if I can't be perfect...then he'll just be settling for second or even third best. He'll see not only a good mate but a smoking hott woman and since I don't look like that... i wont be viewed as such.

I know what you mean though about kids wearing bras. I was forced to wear a bra as a kid and I thin that may be what lead to me being so worried about it. My mom told me you can tell when I wasn't wearing a bra and it looked retarded. If I wanted to be viewed as an adult I would need to wear a bra and she wouldnt let me leave the house until I had put one on. I still refuse to leave the house unless I have something that will supress my nipples and give me a rounded look. whether its a bra or the padding in a dress. because now to me it looks unnatural if I don't.


@Lily Yeah my bf has seen all I have too but we were shopping for bras one day, he was with me, and we saw one of the "add 2 cups sizes instantly" and he commented about false advertising. How a guy would see that, be all over the woman, and when they got home the bra would come off and he would ask" wait..what happened? whats this?" I will say that comment made me want to throw out the bras that I have that have any padding at all in them but yeah. and lol at the nipples comment.

 

[amelie]

This topic is very interesting, but I agree with Strumpet that these social norms probably only exist in the US. In Europe, where I grew up, it is completely normal to have your nipples be seen, and not everyone wears a bra, much less on the beach where there is a lot of topless sunbathing! It is also completely normal to see moms breastfeeding their babies in public, while I understand in the US you can get a fine for that?

I´ve been living in South America for many years now and it isn´t much different here. I never thought anyone could be offended by nipples, they´re just part of the breasts anatomy!
The only thing frowned upon here is body hair, you can absolutely not wear a skirt if your legs aren´t waxed (you can have it done quite cheaply in a salon), guys will stare in horror if you go out with hairy legs. I´ve seen some very few young girls with hairy armpits but they did it to make some sort of statement.

As for the 1/4 bra, I think it makes a nice shape but personally I´d feel a bit naked going out like that, as if I had forgotten to put on underwear... but it might be interesting though, I´ll see if I can find one.
Nowadays it seems like they only sell push up bras with lots of padding, which is okay for some occassions but I agree with Anatori that it looks like false advertising, it would be really bad to be in the situation of taking your bra off and your love interest looking all dissapointed.

 

[Lily13]

Sorry but I have to disagree. I know how this bra felt on me and it was extremely loose and was hanging off of me all the time. When I bought the bra, the woman should have told me it did not fit at all, but she said it looked great. She had no idea what to do with me because I was in there for 2 hours trying every single bra on that VS carried at that time. Sadly the intimmisimi looked the best, but it was so ill-fitting that you are not seeing how it was supposed to look. Your breasts are supposed to completely fill and droops over the edge of the cups. Here's a picture of what that bra should have looked like.
http://www.intimissimi.com/m/index/preview?col=bc&item=25&lang=en

That bra is probably 2 band sizes too big and the cups became stretched out due to putting it on after noogling. You can see that same bra in this picture. [link to image removed] This is more of how the bra is supposed to look like on. Before the cups actually fell back onto my chest because it was gigantic.

Hi! I was referring to the pre-nb picture (on your fisrt post) where you are wearing a beige bra. It seems that the underwire under your breasts digs in (near the middle of the cup), but doesn't touch the skin near the middle of the bra. I'm no expert but this rings "cup is too small" to me. also you breasts were small but round, and the bra's cups do not seem nearly round enough for your breasts. The surface of the bra's cups is large but they look like they don't offer a lot of space inside (do you know what i mean?) As if it's meant for wide but not "thick" breasts. I see my wife's bras have much rounder underwires. (actually i just saw your latest pictures and your new bras seem to have the same problem. maybe it's just a style thing?) Although your size has changed now, it seems that the band on that bra then was too small. It is clearly stretched and the cups are being "deformed" into some kind of oval shape.

I'm posting a picture showing what imo it should look like (I'm not a pro so maybe I'm wrong), with rounder underwire.

 

[Lily13]

I don't normally double post on here... I just wanted to say my 2 cents.

In the US though we don't have good morals at all though as you have pointed out, so I don't think we can blame "Puritans" at all. I think nakedness is frowned upon not because of the Puritans but because of the other group. Not sure what to call them. They have taken away the beauty of the naked body and have sexualized it. Everything is about sex these days in the US. Sexual innuendos are everywhere and even in kid cartoons! Our society believes if you are naked, you are trying to get laid.

Just take a glimpse at women's magazines, the music videos, TV programs. It is either "how to please your man", "how to lose weight", "how to be a good lover" . That's all this country cares about these days. Sex, sex, sex and fake beauty on the outside rather than from the inside.

I actually find this discussion quite interesting! So I thought I'd hop in if I may.

I'm not sure why nipples are such a big deal in some places. When I traveled to Europe, I found breasts to be much less sexually charged, and was at first shocked by bra-less women and their exposed nipples and, of course, topless beaches, but it's funny how quickly you get used to it. I think it has something to do with the Puritan, finger-wagging values (in the US) that make things like nudity or even body hair on a woman (I'm thinking of the reaction to a scene in Ang Lee's "Lust, Caution" that was set in WWII Shanghai, where armpit-shaving wasn't done) an outrage when we're totally okay with brutal violence and even torture porn (Saw, Hostel, etc).

 

[junjo]

Interesting discussion.
I can garantee that this kind of reaction over such things are not only strong in the USA. I lived now in two countries of South America, Brazil and Chile, and in both you can see this type of behavior. In Chile, in the television, breasts, bums and any sex scene are censured, I guess that is a reflex of the strong influence that the catholic church has in the country, only in 2009 the divorce became legal there. Brazil is my country and, even thou is often sold as a place where you can see half naked women everywhere, it is most certainly not true.

Everytime you see a girl without her bra when she goes out you can be quite sure that negative comments will arise and going topless is almost unheard of. A girl who studies with me posted herself doing topless in a social network and in a matter of days every single person knew, saw and made comments about it, it is a big deal. I guess that covering the nipples is convention which allows you to show your body and still don't give a impression that you showed it all, don't know if that makes sense.

Personally, I don't have anything againts 1/4 cups, but I don't find them attractive and it bothers me letting my nipples hang around, mostly because it is uncomfortable when it is rubbed against many types of fabric. For the same reason I don't go braless even having small breasts, they are tiny, but they hurt when doing some movements and I want to preserve most of the perkiness I have.

But yea, I wear padded bras and I don't really care if it is false advertising, 99,9% of the people I will go past won't even see me in bikinis, let alone naked. Makes me feel good about myself wearing some types of clothing. Maybe it contributes to a low self-esteem when I am not wearing them, but we do little tricks all the time to make illusions about so many things, even a lot of large breasted girls wear them, so I feel entitled to do it myself if I look better. Even when you select your clothes to enhance the most attractive parts of your body you are creating an illusion.
Howhever, being fair, my first padded bras made my breasts kinda funny looking cause they were really bigger than they should be. Oh, denial, haha

 

[hephaistos]

My wife says 1/4 cups are more comfortable than standard bras. Especially after a few washes (she says bras become kind of itchy with age). She says you should handwash underwired bras because in the washer the bit protecting the underwire tends to get damaged (roundish and puffy) and then becomes uncomfortable.

She's had problems at work (about a week ago) with 1/4 cup bras as she was told off by her manager ("the fat jealous bitch" her words not mine ) despite not showing cleavage whatsoever.... And this while one of her colleagues sexually harasses the young (male) doctors and nurses and gets away with it... Two things annoy me about this: if i did half the things the colleague does (cant throw names on the forum, sorry), I'd be in jail, and secondly, showing huge cleavage (this is england women tend to have larger breasts here than the rest of europe) is not as big a problem as slightly seeing the shape of nipples. Under big knitted dresses, not as revealing as a tank top or a shirt... Not to mention she's not making sexual advances to other members of staff. Despite a good conversation here, I still can't really explain why ("it's the law" is no answer to "why"), and now my wife is having doubts... Sometimes I hate other human beings. I've had to work hard at making her feel more confident about her chest, and in a five minute chat some nobody soon-out-of-a-job NHS manager can undo everything.