Zercher's progress

tinytots

New Member
I feel the same way, and I started at 32AA! ;D I was going for 32C when I first started out and now that it seems so close I feel I would still look too small if I were that size! I wonder if aiming for DD would be too far-fetched...

Zercher, I'm curious to know if you've ever gained some weight while you started NBE or have you been very constant with your weight? I find myself gaining, and I fear my bandsize might grow to a 34. Thing is, I also fear losing weight because I'm a small person and if I don't have enough fat then my boobs won't grow!
 

zkk

New Member
That's how it works - you think C is sooo big and then you are about to achieve it and you think, "really, this is it?" Nothing is too far-fetched as long as there are people who have grown several cup sizes, and we know they exist. I say go for it!

My weight has changed a bit during these 16 months that I have noogled. I started at 59 kg and 32B, and I gained one cup size very quickly. After that I gained some weight, and last spring my weight was 61 kg. At that point I was already a 32D. Then I got the mysterious virus and lost some weight. My breasts shrunk to 32C again. I took a long break from noogling, and after that I started slowly regaining what I had lost. I've been back to my original weight (59 kg) this whole autumn and winter, and my size is 32D again. So that makes me exactly the same as when I started, except my boobs are two cup sizes bigger. :)

It is possible that you lose some of your growth when losing weight. A good thing could be to lose weight very slowly, just like when you're trying to lose the fat and not the muscle. At least the dramatic drop in weight when I fell ill was very bad for boobs ;D I've been thinking of losing a couple of kgs this spring but I'm not sure yet. The fat thing puzzles me too, and I'd really like to preserve these boobs for bikinis... but I'd also want a sixpack and some muscle definition to my arms! Why can't I just have both?! ::)

James has seen a lot in this site, maybe he could tell if he's ever seen someone with a very low BMI and/or fat percentage grow bigger boobs with noogling?
 

HoneyBee

New Member
Thank you for posing your results. So encouraging for my little As. They are jumping for joy that a D would be possible.

I'm loosing a bit of my holiday weight so I'm back on my ketosis diet. So far I have lost 4lbs (1.8kg) and my breasts are the same. Most of the weight loss came from my waist. Looking to drop about 8-10lbs (4kg or so) more in the next few weeks. I've done the ketosis diet before and haven't lost from my breast. I'm looking to stay on the diet permanently now. I focus on eating lots of health fats...LOTS. It's not lifestyle for everyone but may be good for keeping breast size while loosing fat.
 

zkk

New Member
HoneyBee, I'm glad my results are encouraging to you :) D is definitely possible! Thanks for sharing your experience with ketosis. I have never tried it, but I've started some kind of a diet with less (bad) carbs so I hope it will help me maintain my size. I also eat less red meat and dairy and more vegetables, chicken, nuts and seeds (flaxseed too) and vegetable oils. Losing weight only from waist would be awesome. :D
 

James

Active Member
Zercher said:
James has seen a lot in this site, maybe he could tell if he's ever seen someone with a very low BMI and/or fat percentage grow bigger boobs with noogling?

Certainly people with a low BMI have a harder time. I am not sure if Jezabelle qualifies http://www.noogleberry.com/forum/index.php/topic,4306.0.html
titlehere looks pretty thin too
http://www.noogleberry.com/forum/index.php/topic,4343.0.html

Herbs like fenugreek definitely add fat. Fenugreek will add fat all over your body, it does not target just the boobs.
 

James

Active Member
I've been thinking about your girlfriend, the one with boob envy. She sounds like a perfect nbe candidate. You said you did not want to tell her about your own program until you had clear and positive results. So have you told her yet?

If not, maybe you could buy yourself a new pump and tubing so you could invite her over for a sauna session and lend her your old cups while you use your new ones. To rationalize this expense, you might want to get the pump with the guage, it will not make any difference, but knowing what your limits are and being able to compare from one session to the next could be helpful.
 

zkk

New Member
I now realize this could turn into awkward evaluation of other people's BMI ;D But you're right, both Jezabelle and titlehere have had phenomenal results with quite a low BMI. But I suppose significant underweight could slow down growth or even prevent it altogether. That is, if it's mostly fat what we are gaining. BUT this rule doesn't seem to apply to all those men who've had great results with pumping. Men have a lower fat percentage generally, and they have managed to grow breasts anyway.

As for my friend, I once brought up the subject of NBE and massaging breasts for growth. She said she was aware of it, but she said she wouldn't have the patience even if it worked. I supposed the same applied to noogling, so I let the conversation drop. She has been considering implants though, and actually we went together to a breast augmentation consultation a few years ago. There I decided I didn't want implants, and she hasn't done it either, but she's still considering it. I doubt she'd want to commit to something like this, but maybe I will bring it up some day. In sauna, perhaps. ;D
 

James

Active Member
I hope your girlfriend does not get implants. I have read too many horror stories like these:

http://www.noogleberry.com/forum/index.php/topic,4714.msg48012.html#msg48012
http://www.noogleberry.com/forum/index.php/topic,5115.msg50770.html#msg50770
http://www.noogleberry.com/forum/index.php/topic,5051.msg50094.html#msg50094

Tell her about these experiences, discourage her from implants for her own good.
Tell her that they usually have to be replaced every 10 years.
I am definitely a "boob guy", and yes, I ogle at internet women with huge artificial tits, but I would never want one for a girlfriend. l would be put off by just knowing they are artificial and would feel artificial.
 

tinytots

New Member
Thank you for sharing the BMI info. It's true, lots of men here have experienced exponential growth using NB alone. It's like a phenomenon. I suppose it could be because us women, we're very concerned about the colour changes of our nipples, the pressure, pain, purple boobs, red spots, stretchmarks and so on. Guys on the other hand pump the heck out of their boobs and voila, they see amazing results while the women are still trying to balance supplements and massage with our NB routine. ;D
 

zkk

New Member
James: Yep, that is exactly the reason why I gave up the idea. And of course the fact that they would be fake, not really "mine".

She is aware of the risks, we went through them countless times when were considering implants together. We weighed the possible results and possible accidents, and so far she has hesitated enough to not do it. I'm not a judgmental person and I really don't want to push it to her, because I know what it feels like. When I was considering implants, I was very sensitive about it and didn't want anyone to try to change my mind, as it felt like suggesting I didn't know what I was doing and like I was only being superficial or stupid. I eventually changed my mind by myself, and she too makes her own decisions. But I will tell her to consider it carefully. She wants to have children, maybe in the near future, so I don't think she's going to do it yet. I hope her breasts will grow enough from pregnancy and breastfeeding so that she doesn't feel the need to do it anymore.

But what is left for some women wanting bigger bust? They don't know about NBE, they don't want it or it doesn't work for them. It's a frustrating feeling, knowing implants are bad but flatness is even worse. Their options are getting implants, accepting themselves or hating their breasts all their life. My option would have been the last one if I hadn't found Noogleberry. My obsession with bigger breasts is so strong I would be a boob guy too if I wasn't a straight woman :D I would've have never fully accepted my flatness because that was not the woman I felt I was supposed to be.

I'm slowly learning to love what I have, now that I have something to love. But I'm still far from accepting myself. I strive for improvement, not satisfaction with incompleteness. Not that it's the best way, but that's just how I am.
 

zkk

New Member
Tinytots, that's what I've been thinking too :D Maybe their pain threshold is higher, too? And their skin might not be as sensitive as women's, and so it can take more pressure without damage. Anyway, there could be a thing or two we could learn from our fellow male nooglers!
 

summer

New Member
When I was researching the implants, one real possibility is that your boobs will look worse after than before. That was really the decider for me. As someone with such fragile self esteem, the idea that I could look WORSE was too much to bear. Plus, my dad has had lots of surgeries & he ALWAYS experiences the 1 in a million side effect/complication every single time. Not that Im my dad exactly, but I guess it just makes all those potential problems seem much more likely. I dont know how many people have seen this website but it made a lasting impression on me.

http://paulkienitz.net/no-implants.html
 

zkk

New Member
Summer, that was also one of the things that made me change my mind. I have never been unhappy with the shape of my breasts, only size, so the thought that I could get more size but lose the shape was unbearable. My breasts are so tight there would've been no way they would've looked good or natural with implants stuffed into them. And if I had to have them removed, I would never get my former breasts back. It is better to live with constant bad feeling about my breasts than constant fear of something going wrong with the implants.

I read all those 48 reasons, and he has a point in there. That text may be en eye-opener for some women, and that is great, but I'm not sure it would have changed my mind before I did it myself. That's because he doesn't address the underlying problem or offer any other convincing solution to it. He is generally right about everything, but what he misses is that rationalizing it doesn't make it any easier to live with small/nonexistent breasts and the only generally known way out of it is currently - unfortunately - implants. I also have to admit I was a bit annoyed by his way of expression, it felt like he was subtly saying "you are stupid if you really think/feel this way, you should know better." What he can't understand as a man is that it's not only about looks, self-esteem, attention or even male acceptance. It's about the whole experience of being a woman. I always felt like I was deprived of something that is part of other women's lives. The simple feeling of something hanging on your chest, breasts jiggling when you walk, your arm brushing your bust when you cross your arms, filling your shirts and dresses, the feeling of a hand grasping your breast and not your ribs.

It's been impossible for me to explain to myself why very small breasts exist when there are also enormous breasts. The size seems to serve some obvious purpose, and I couldn't help but feel that my lack of size was synonymous to "unfinished", "defective" and "not meant for reproduction". That last one is actually interesting because I don't think I will ever even want children and I don't consciously value myself through my ability to reproduce, but it's a very subconscious thing - the underlying feeling that full breasts symbolize femininity and fertility and that I have failed to accomplish this basic requirement for being a woman. Yes, "failed" is how I generally felt about myself with small breasts. I needed to feel what it was like to have decent breasts, and just learning to love myself wouldn't have given me that experience. (I stress that this was only how I felt about myself, not about other women with small breasts.)

He is right when he says in many cases implants don't solve these problems. But sometimes they do. I have also heard many women telling they wish they had done it earlier. I don't want to belittle that experience. I will never take implants myself or hope that anyone else does it, but I will also never judge or blame anyone for doing it. I've been there, I know what it is like and that sometimes just rationalizing it isn't enough, because it doesn't solve the problem, which is very feeling-based. I really hope they come up with more effective ways to enlarge breasts in the future, so that the only way to get rid of the problem isn't to expose oneself to other kinds of problems. Or maybe a brain washing technique that really makes us believe small breast are so much more awesome than bigger ones. :D

What a rant, probably no one bothers to even read this ;D This is a subject that provokes a lot of thoughts in me, because it's been a constant battle between how I feel, how I should feel and how I am told by others to feel about myself.
 

missamanda

Member
Thank you Summer for posting that link. I just read the article and agree with all the points he raised AND your views too Zercher. I have to say, I've clearly done a great job of living in denial all these years regarding just how much my small breasts really affected me. Mainly because there were always other more obvious things to worry about (niggling health issues etc) so it just got pushed deep down. However, a few eye-opening meltdowns last year really confirmed to me just how much of a problem it was and for all the reasons you mention.

The main thing that struck a chord was that I have always subconsciously believed that I too am not fit to reproduce because of my lack of breasts. This is a really important observation that might warrant deeper investigation (by scientists, doctors, psychologists etc) because I now wonder if it is the reason why I have never felt particularly maternal. The idea of having kids has always felt completely alien to me and I always thought of it as something other people do, as if they're more qualified/equipped/prepared than I am. Perhaps I feel that because I haven't developed fully physically, that I therefore haven't developed fully emotionally either. In fact, this was touched upon in my energy healing sessions. It's very likely that having a childish looking body may have held me back in other ways too. Even if noogling does give me the more feminine figure I've been deprived of all these years, I wonder if it's too late to undo the psychological effects? Or whether I was always going to feel this way, regardless of what size my breasts were?....

However, I'm not sure how helpful it is to do such deep navel-gazing. Sometimes, we just have to get on with things. In fact, I've observed that the people who do the least self-reflection tend to be least anxious! 8)

Zercher, has any of this changed for you as your breasts have grown in size?
 

summer

New Member
Well... I read your rant and totally agree with you. If I didnt want bigger breasts I wouldnt be on here either. & He doesn't offer any help for people who dont comform to societal norms. Im not sure there is an answer though... I have seen women who have had both breasts removed from cancer and who didn't get a boob job & dont use prosthetics and who seemingly have good self esteem. I have to admit that I am in awe of them... not that I would want to be in their shoes but I wish I was OK enough w myself and my body that I didn't care what people thought & could be happy with whatever I had (even it was nothing). Maybe going through something like cancer changes your priorities. I have been told getting older helps, that you just don't give a shit anymore. I have no idea how old that is... Im 41 now & Im definitely not there. haha.

Just a side note, after I posted that website I sat and re-read them all again & realized that while some of those comments helped me... what really helped me was the "real" people who gave their reasons not to get a boob job (the link is at the bottom of that other page but Ill put it here again just in case you are really, really bored one day :) ). Those people writing in w their experiences were more telling (at least in my opinion) and a most were less judgmental. Regardless it isn't any easy decision & I can certainly understand why people opt for surgery.

http://paulkienitz.net/more-reasons.html
 

zkk

New Member
Missamanda: You have an interesting theory there and I can relate to it. It may be also related to our qualities as persons, but I think bodily things affect our perceptions of ourselves more than we are aware of (just like you said that you hadn't realized the insecurity was always there). What if we had become Venus-like caricatures of femininity with huge breasts and super wide hips, would that have been a sign to our unconscious mind that we are meant to be mothers and we have to reproduce? In fact, as a child I always felt I would be a mother someday and I would grow up to be this certain kind of a motherly, feminine woman. I turned out to be nothing like that, and after my teens I've increasingly thought I may not want to have children after all. Somehow it just doesn't feel "right". How much is it because of how I view myself as a woman? I would like it to be investigated further, too.

You're right about the self-reflection. I'm very (too much) self-reflective. And anxious. But that's how I process things. ;D

And the question... you really made me think about it. Do I still feel the same way as when my breasts were smaller? Certainly it hasn't changed my inner feeling of femininity or fertility, as I'm still small-busted, but my thoughts about my breasts have become much more positive and so it is much easier to like my body as a whole. And that is a huge improvement, considering how desperate I was with my flatness. I view myself as quite "normal" now, and one thing that keeps my mind positive is that I believe this is not the end. I'm determined to grow more ;)
 

zkk

New Member
Summer: That's what I thought too, that age would make it easier, but after my teens I noticed it only got worse because all hope was lost that they'd still grow. :D I also admire people who don't care about their breasts or if they even have them, but I also think it is because breasts have a different meaning to those people and so it is hard to compare. I 'm not sure if I can really change how much value I give to breasts because of the things I said in my rant.

I was also about to say that I would've wanted to hear a more experience-based approach to the subject, not just from someone who is totally unable to relate to it, so I agree that it's much better to read experiences of people who have gone through it. I will read those comments too. :)
 

James

Active Member
Thank you ladies for posting your inner feelings. It gives me real insight that I didn't have before, and I feel it will make my relationships better for this understanding.
 

tinytots

New Member
I read all your "rant" Zercher, but I didn't bother reading all 48 reasons why we shouldn't get a boob job. I just know that many women don't care enough about the reasons, and to have to hear it from a guy of all people almost invalidates the reasons.

I completely empathize with you ladies. Not too long ago I was engaged to be married (well that went to hell) and we started talking about kids. All of a sudden he asked me if I planned on breastfeeding...I laughed, looked down at my chest and rhetorically asked him if it looked as though it was even possible. In reality, it wasn't remotely funny to me.

I don't know how many times I've had friends discuss breastfeeding around me and I've always remained silent because I've always felt unable to contribute in such conversations. I mean, if I were pro-breastfeeding and they disagreed with me, it would bring unwanted attention to my flat chest. On the other hand if I were to oppose, they would look at my chest and think "well, you obviously oppose because it's not like you have a choice in the matter". Not sure if what I'm saying is making any sense, I'm sleep-deprived. ;D

I've gone as far as reading all kinds of articles on how the ability to breastfeed is not dependent on breast size. But you see, to me, I have always felt as though these were "non-boobs" as opposed to them being just small boobs.

My whole life, people talking about cleavage, milk jugs, bikinis and so on I just couldn't relate. I have friends who are confident enough to wear bikinis even if they appear to have a cup size of AA, or A. I've always felt other women with small breasts have "cute" breasts, while I'm grossly flat-chested.

Sigh, sorry I just hijacked your thread with a sob story. ;D NBE are for cautious, optimistic hopefuls. But we are as equally desperate as the implantees. ;D
 

zkk

New Member
Don't worry tinytots, I think it's great that this subject has made several ladies open up about their feelings, just like James said :)

You brought up an important issue I forgot to mention: the feeling of being an outsider. When other people talked about boobs or anything related to them, I always felt like it didn't apply to me. I was as much out of the conversation as a guy would have been. That contributed to the feeling of being abnormal, "non-woman" having "non-boobs", when in truth, they were just small breasts. I get what you meant with the breastfeeding thing. Even when people have said that small breasts are just fine and you can breastfeed with them etc., I have thought that yes, maybe small breasts, but what if you have no breasts at all? (Of course I have always had some kind of breasts, but "small" is so subjective it was easy to think that by small people mean B-cup breasts and anything smaller was just nonexistent to them).

It is further emphasized by the fact that all slang words for breasts in my language (Finnish) mean huge breasts. Maybe it's the same in English? Only the Finnish equivalent for "boobs" is quite neutral, and of course the clinical "breasts". We call them milk jugs too, and also "lungs", "sails", "bumpers", "doughnuts", "milk churns", "cannons" and many other words I can't even translate, and all of them would sound ridiculous when used of small breasts. No wonder we develop the feeling that only big breasts are "real" breasts, and small ones just a "nice try". You can't even call them doughnuts! ;D
 
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